Subject: Inexpensive MBONE "encoding" machine.

From: "Forrest W. Christian" <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 4 Apr 1998 11:57:27 -0700 (MST)

I'm needing to put together a machine that will do a good job at real-time
audio and video encoding for the MBONE.

I also don't want to spend a lot of money.

Does anyone have some real-world experience with what it takes to do a
good job at encoding both audio and video and pushing it out a tunnel to
the MBONE?

My main requirements are:

	1) Relatively Inexpensive (I'd love to go buy an O2, but I just
           can't justify it).
	2) Must be able to encode video from a "real" NTSC 1V P-P source
           (ala the video in/out jacks on most video equipment)
	3) Must be able to do the same for audio
	
The machine will be dedicated to this task when it is used for it.  I
DON'T want to start an OS war here.  Basically, I'm looking for the lowest
cost solution which works.

Feel free to send e-mail to me privately instead of to the whole list
if you feel that this is better discussed off-list.

Thanks.

- Forrest W. Christian ([email-masked]) 
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Solutions for your high-tech problems.                  (406)-442-6648
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From: Mark Handley <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 04 Apr 1998 18:03:57 -0500

>good job at encoding both audio and video and pushing it out a tunnel to

The obvious solution would be PC-based if cost is your primary
constraint.  You should be able to put together a PC with (say) a
233MHz AMD K6, 32MB of SDRAM, a small (1-2G) IDE disc, a BT848-based
video capture card, ethernet, cheapish framebuffer, and an audio card
for under $1000 (without a monitor).

If you're sending over the public Mbone, this would certainly be fast
enough to code H.261 at a healthy frame rate.  If you have a private
network in mind and don't care about bandwidth, you might want to
spend more money on a high-end Pentium-II machine, but the difference
is probably not terrribly significant if you're only encoding.  If you
want to encode and decode full frame rate video simultaneously, things
get somewhat harder...

As for OS, the BT848 is certainly supported under FreeBSD (I've no
experience with Linux), and Mbone support is stable.  Not sure what
sound card I'd recommend though - the one we have used is
discontinued.

Cheers,
	Mark

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From: Jeremy Porter <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 17:05:31 -0500

>sound card I'd recommend though - the one we have used is

Speaking of Bt848 based cards under FreeBSD, I've been working to
get my FreeBSD system to capture video with a Panasonic EggCam, which
uses a Miro Video BT848 PCI card.  The system detects the card,
although I had to manual set the card type using the OVERRIDE options
as it isn't one of the list cards.  However I only seem to get
some sort of garbled random data being display, and haven't been able
to track the source of the problem.
I've used the dtv, fxtv, and videocapture programs that I tracked down,
but haven't had siginficant luck.  If anyone out there has experiences
with this type of setup, I'd be intersted in hearing suggestions about it.

---
Jeremy Porter, Freeside Communications, Inc.      [email-masked]
PO BOX 80315 Austin, Tx 78708  | 512-458-9810
http://www.fc.net

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From: Amancio Hasty <[email-masked]>
Date: Sun, 05 Apr 1998 17:03:42 -0700

Sure post to the freebsd mailing list:

[email-masked]

	Amancio

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From: Christoph Fleck <[email-masked]>
Date: Mon, 6 Apr 1998 09:11:28 +0200 (MET DST)

> for under $1000 (without a monitor).

If you wont to use Windows (I dont recommend, I would prefer FreeBSD), 
it could be importend that the framebuffer runs TrueColor with 
24bit colordepth. 
(ATI is ok. Some S3, Permedia2, ... runs only 32 bit TrueColor)

> Not sure what

Any Card with Crystal CS4236 Chip (..., Adlib MSC 16 pnp) was the best in 
my case, some trouble with soundblaster sb16, sb32 :-( .

Sorry, I have only a page in German on this stuff:
http://www-mm.urz.tu-dresden.de/pc-hardware/

Christoph

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From: Hugh LaMaster <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 7 Apr 1998 10:45:38 -0700 (PDT)

> I also don't want to spend a lot of money.

A PC running FreeBSD would be the minimal-cost solution,
although, I wouldn't recommend it unless you or someone
nearby likes to hack *BSD systems.  The multimedia stuff
is not (yet) hassle-free.  Get a Hauppauge WinTV PCI 
video capture card.  [The audio card selection will 
demand some careful research and a bit of work.]

Another option is to run the PC under W95 or NT using
one of the commercial PC packages - Precept or Icast,
but, you will need to do your multicast routing on the
router then.

> good job at encoding both audio and video and pushing it out a tunnel to

Yes.  ;-)

If you mean that you are concerned about running mrouted on the
same box as the encoding - don't worry.  mrouted is not a memory
hog (at least 3.8 wasn't - I don't know about 3.9beta, but, I assume
it isn't either) and it isn't a CPU hog if you are only routing 
between one subnet and one tunnel.  mrouted is quite efficient.

> 	1) Relatively Inexpensive (I'd love to go buy an O2, but I just

An O2 is one solution.  Here is another: there are several sources
of used SGI Indy systems out there.  You can get what you need
for probably $3K-$4K ($ U.S.)  What you need is an Indy R4600SC, 
133MHz or up (e.g. R4400, R5000 at 150-200 MHz is fine).  You want 64MB,
the 24-bit Indy framebuffer, and Irix 6.2.  If you buy the system
for just this purpose, you won't need SGI combined H/W S/W maintenance, 
but, you will need a source of hardware maintenance.  These used
SGI systems can sometimes be purchased for quite reasonable cost,
but, be aware that there are occasional CPU and motherboard failures,
so, you maintenance is a good bet, and the cost of maintenance may
be the reason the person is getting rid of the system.  Still,
it may be the best bet for your requirements.

Likewise, a Sun SPARCstation 20SX model 71 with SunVideo 
(similar configuration)running Solaris 2.5.1 will do the trick.  
Unfortunately, the prices on these as used systems were very low 
last year, but seem to have gone up a bit lately - (demand for 
web servers perhaps)?  If the price were right, this could be
a good bet.  As with the SGI, 64 MB, 1 GB disk.  Also, used 
SunVideos are rare, while, with the SGI Indy systems, video 
was built in.  Check prices - this could be a good option.

[Has anyone experimented with the new Sun Ultra PCI-based systems yet?
How expensive are they?  What kind of audio/video do they have?  
Do the mbone tools work?]

> cost solution which works.

There is a definite cost/hassle tradeoff here.  The lowest-cost
solution, FreeBSD, can be done very inexpensively, but, will be 
more work than an off-the-shelf solution.  Also, you should 
probably state what your reliability requirements are.  If you 
need high reliability, I would tend to favor the SPARC20SX/
Solaris2.5.1 solution.

--
 Hugh LaMaster, M/S 233-21,    ASCII Email: [email-masked]
 NASA Ames Research Center     Or:          [email-masked]
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 Phone: 650/604-1056           Disclaimer:  Unofficial, personal *opinion*.