Subject: Re: sdr 2.5a5 : which DLL's?

From: "Daniel A. Alvarez" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 08:35:44 +0100

Since so many of you have asked, I'd found the Tcl code in
various forms and flavors at:

ftp://ftp.scriptics.com/pub/tcl/

dan

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From: Colin Perkins <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 11:44:23 +0100

>ftp://ftp.scriptics.com/pub/tcl/

I believe that Sdr 2.5a5 needs to have tcl/tk 8.0 installed on windows.
The file to download if you don't have this is
	ftp://ftp.scriptics.com/pub/tcl/tcl8_0/tcl80p2.exe
(it's a self extracting installer script)

Colin

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From: Beau Williamson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 11:17:41 -0500

Colin,

I think it is a mistake to "require" the Tcl/Tk environment on the PC.  The
"Shrimp" version of sdr is compiled with the necessary binaries so that it
is standalone.  I suggest that this version should also be standalone. 
(I mentioned this to Mark Handley in an earlier email to this alias.)

If you are the person responsible for producing the Win95/NT version, would
you look into recompiling this so it is a standalone .EXE file.  If you are
not the responsible party, then you can ignore this request.  (Or possibly
just pass it on to the correct person.)

Thanks in advance.

Beau

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From: Colin Perkins <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 17:30:41 +0100

Beau,

I wasn't the one who produced the windows binaries, but I believe the
change was unintentional. I've forwarded your request...

Colin

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From: Niels Baggesen <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 23:00:41 +0200

> (I mentioned this to Mark Handley in an earlier email to this alias.)

I, for my part, was delighted to see that this sdr was compiled non-static!
It should not be that big a problem to install tcl/tk at the same time you
install sdr/vic/vat/rat/nte etc. I don't see any reason to waste disk and
ram on additional copies of tcl/tk.

Just my 0.02

/Niels

-- 
Niels Baggesen,  UNI-C,  Olof Palmes Alle 38,  DK-8200  Aarhus N,  Denmark
Email: [email-masked]  Tel: +45 89 37 66 69  Fax: +45 89 37 66 77
---  Never underestimate the bandwidth of a CD flying through the lab  ---

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From: Beau Williamson <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 16:57:37 -0500

>ram on additional copies of tcl/tk.

Niels,

I don't mean to offend you but it seems that you are taking a Unix-centric
view to this. 

PC users are generally not sophisticated enough to understand requirements
of runtime environments and don't deal with such issues very well.  Unless
you want to take the effort to package the Mbone tools into a Win95
installer to make sure that the proper DLLs are installed in the correct
place, and with the correct environment variables, etc., I think we are
better off eating a little disk space.  (Sheesh, Windoze eats disks anyway
so most Windoze users are used to this!)

I think the ultimate goal here is to make the MBone tools available to as
wide an audience as possible with a minimum of installation hassle.  (Even
the Shrimp version requires editing DOS environment variables which is
generally more than many Windoze users are willing or able to do now days.)
I've long felt that making vat and WB available to the Win95 crowd for
multimedia conferencing will do more toward furthering the use of multicast
and the MBone than any possible video content could ever hope to accomplish.  

Having said that, I'm not opposed to a Win9x/NT MBone kit that installs all
the correct images in the correct place and uses common Tcl/Tk DLLs.
However, I don't think the people doing the porting of these apps to this
environment want to sign up for this.  

My humble $0.02

Beau
P.S. Maybe _they_ will build us two images, one with and one without DLL. ;->

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From: Dave Barr <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 08:25:43 -0400

>I don't mean to offend you but it seems that you are taking a Unix-centric

I would tend to agree.

>of runtime environments and don't deal with such issues very well.

Speaking of which, is the Shrimp package going to be updated?  I notice
they still use a relatively old version of sdr (2.4a6s3)

http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/shrimp/

--Dave

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From: Colin Perkins <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 20 Aug 1998 13:44:56 +0100

>http://www-mice.cs.ucl.ac.uk/shrimp/

The SHRIMP package itself was a specific project and won't be updated any
more. However, the tools are still being maintained and the bug fixes and
installation scripts from SHRIMP should be merged into the standard tools
eventually. 

Colin

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From: Don Brutzman <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 1998 20:01:52 -0700

> ram on additional copies of tcl/tk.

Here's one reason:  when you recommend to mere mortals that they install
the MBone tools on their PC, nonstatically compiled versions "don't work."

My students have found the Shrimp versions helpful.  We can recommend them
to non-geek colleagues without hesitation.

all the best, Don                         [new area code not working?  try 408]
-- 
Don Brutzman  Naval Postgraduate School, Code UW/Br Root 200  work 831.656.2149
              Monterey California 93943-5000 USA              fax  831.656.3679
Virtual worlds/underwater robots/Internet http://www.stl.nps.navy.mil/~brutzman