Subject: RE: Was: IMJ announcement - "interesting" apps needed for MBone?

From: Peter Ford <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 13:46:23 -0800

Another element missing is a commonly accepted and profitable business
model for packets sourced into the Mbone.  There is a big difference in
cost to an ISP with backbone infrastructure in accepting and delivering
a "mbone packet" and regular unicast packet over the customer's loop.  

To paraphrase one Internet wag from the Toronto IETF: "if the bloody
ISPs would learn to differentiate their services their revenues would go
up and in turn would incent further infrastructure buildout for Internet
..."

cheers, peter

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From: Jason Coombs <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 13:50:57 -0800

> Bah ... I don't believe it.  Proper ttls and bandwidth limits
> can go a long way.  If we stop thinking in term of a single
> global mbone and start treating multicast as part of the 
> infrastructure, we'll start seeing services flourish on regional
> levels.  Perhaps the answer is to get rid of the mbone and
> start looking at many multicast backbones.  Not as pretty, but
> it sure scales better and is a good step towards moving this
> out of the research project arena and into the general-purpose
> infrastructure.

Agreed. Interesting conversation.

See http://www.stardust.com/ipmulticast/

Regards,

Jason Coombs
Scientist, SCIENCE.ORG
http://www.science.org/jasonc/

---

From: Jason Coombs <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 6 Feb 1997 14:29:50 -0800

> of course the commercial isps squeal, becuase then they don't get such
> a high bandwidth resell factor, and they have to compete on a level (ish)
> playing field with telcos....and their main edge (knowing how to do router
> config, web server config and firewalls) is becoming a commodity
> item....c.f. ISPs for Dummies, in a bookstore near you, and coming
> soon "Mbone for Dummies" and "Internet Phone for Dummies"

Internet Access Providers don't even need to know how to configure routers,
Web servers, firewalls, and the like anymore... What once was rare
quickly became a commodity item and is now becoming outdated as
companies like Northern Telecom and other established POTS/wireless
equipment vendors realized that data switches and metropolitan-scale
Internet access equipment could very well be the future of their industry.

With the right equipment, it's possible to establish a new Internet Access
Provider in a given region with less technical knowledge and less work
than were required in the 1980's and early 90's to set up a new regional
cable television provider. Basically, you just plug all the cables together
and you're in business.

By the time Multicasting/MBone and communications technology are
ready for "prime-time", the typical Internet Access Provider will function
more like a cable company or POTS telecom provider does today than
like the industrial UNIX system and network administration outfits that
are typical of ISPs.

I've co-authored several ...For Dummies books, and haven't heard of an
ISP For Dummies or an MBone For Dummies, but that doesn't mean
IDG Books isn't working on these titles. (http://www.dummies.com/)

There is already an Internet Telephony For Dummies®
By Daniel D. Briere, Patrick J. Hurley 
ISBN 0-7645-0019-8

And the closest thing to an ISP For Dummies would be the book I
co-authored:

Setting Up An Internet Site For Dummies
By Jason Coombs and Ted Coombs
ISBN 1-56884-335-6

Regards,

Jason Coombs
Scientist, SCIENCE.ORG