Subject: New Development with MBONE Tools

From: "Chris Robson (Senior Scientist)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 08:49:11 -0400 (EDT)

All

Looking for MBONE tools with the following requirements:

Work on NT/Win95 and Unix (Sun/SGI/DEC/HP/etc) AND interoperate
Have these applications:
         Session Directory
         Chat Tool
         Whiteboard (tif/gif/ras/jpeg/etc and large files >100Mb)
         video and audio
         Shared Applications (ie spreadsheet, wordprocessor, etc)

Having said this here is what I know I can use:
        SDR(for Unix) and SD (new one for NT)
        VIC/VAT/RAT

What is missing are:
     Whiteboard (WB is just too limited)
     Chat tool which does multicast
     Shared Appl.  (NT is limited doesnt handle APLEX or Word files)

Anyone have pointers to development or available solutions for these
requirements.

Thanks.....chris

---

From: Toerless Eckert <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 14:53:15 +0200 (MET DST)

> Anyone have pointers to development or available solutions for these

Gee, you are early in the year with your christmas wishlist.
What's yoour contribution to this effort ?

---

From: "Lucia Gradinariu" <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 16:02:28 +0200 (MET DST)

>          Shared Applications (ie spreadsheet, wordprocessor, etc)

you really have a PC/Win95 that can handle all this staff ? i've done
some experiences with a cooperative project for mecanics engineers on
an heterogenous platform (SGI/SUN/DEC & PC/Win95) and the first thing
to put out of the team was the PC. Maybe i'm wrong, maybe i haven't got
the right PC ;-)  but nowaday, if you want to exploit these tools to
do real work (the kind where people get involved and are not bothered
by repeted CTRL/ALT/DELs) you have to accept two things:

1. nothing is perfect, use your imagination to compensate
2. a good UNIX station (it's a little bit more expensive but you
can also compensate, something in relation with all we've
got from  GNU, Mbone and other projects and  the developpement time&
know-how we can spear ourselfs)
 
>      Whiteboard (WB is just too limited)

yes, it is limited but not in file size (use -P option and don't ask why
it takes 10 seconds to transfer you file on your Ethernet)

>      Shared Appl.  (NT is limited doesnt handle APLEX or Word files)
Try NetMeeting and share MSWord and MSPowerPoint interfaces. I don't think
it worth spearing so much graphics for the job you want to do but you can
do it. And NTs now support talking X11 (for some 5000$ more) so you can
do the job even on an UNIX station. Don't ask for IPmulti... I'd really
like to think of 3-4 peoples eachone with a Word interface cutting&pasting
&importing images! Maybe someday ...

If you are less pretentious you can use your PC as an xterm (rather for
free) and do WB and mumble and some other non very multimedia things.
  
> Anyone have pointers to development or available solutions for these

hope this helps,

Lucia Gradinariu

---

From: Mark Handley <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 10:31:08 -0400

>     Shared Appl.  (NT is limited doesnt handle APLEX or Word files)

When I developed NTE (the Network Text Editor) I made a deliberate
decision not to make it a word processor because the very model of a
word processor seemed to be at odds with the more free-form use of
text that happens in a collaborative environment.  

Shared word-processing seems to mostly be a waste of the participants
time.  A shared editor generally gets used for more rough and ready
summaries, dicussion, anotation, etc (so everyone can agree on what
was discussed) and not for final layout or editing of documents.
Simple examples of how this impacts a tool is that the window in NTE
is much wider than a normal text editing window to allow space for
annotations on the right, only fixed width fonts are allowed to allow
the saving of an annotated document in an ASCII text file, and colour
and font or normally used by participants to help identify who wrote
what.  None of these are features that would be desirable in a word
processor, but they make NTE a better *shared* text editor.

In some ways, perhaps this was a mistake, becasue the ability to
discuss and annotate documents would be a useful one.  However
developing a multicast-based shared word processor that can handle all
that Word would throw at it is a non-trivial task.  It is unlikely
that a non-commercial outfit would be able to devote the resources to
such a non-research task.  

Mark

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From: Peter Parnes <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 13 May 1997 19:04:56 +0200

Our mDesk includes a mcast whiteboard and mcast chat. It works under 
windows95/NT and unix (any platform that supports Java1.1.1).

The whiteboard does not support files as large as 100MBs though, but who needs 
that :-)

http://mates.cdt.luth.se/software/mDesk/

/P

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From: Richard Williams <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 13:11:24 -0700 (PDT)

I have a linux machine and i am unsure if it has had multicast built into
the kernal.. What is a quick way to tell? Thanks!

rw

---

From: Eric Paulos <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 14:42:27 -0700

It does not come installed in the initial installation.  During the
bootup or in the syslog you should see something similar to:

   IP Protocols: IGMP, ICMP, UDP, TCP, IPIP
   Linux IP multicast router 0.05.

The "IGMP" in the "IP Protocols" line means that this kernel is
compiled with multicast support. This will allow you to connect to
multicast addresses and route traffic through multicast routers on
your network. If you only see "ICMP, UDP, TCP", then you do not have
multicast support enabled. Worse, if you don't see the "IP Protocols"
line at all, then you don't have any IP networking configured.

The "IPIP" on the "IP Protocols" line means that this kernel is
compiled with IP tunneling support. This is needed by multicast
routing to build links between multicast routers. You need this entry
if you will be using your computer as a router between local segments
or as the end of a tunnel.

You only need the "IP multicast router" line if you will be using your
computer as a router between local segments or as the end of a
tunnel. In both of these cases, you will need to run the multicast
routing daemon (mrouted) in addtion to having the "IP multicast
router" option turned on in your kernel compile.

See:	http://www.teksouth.com/linux/multicast

for more info.

-eric paulos

  RW>  I have a linux machine and i am unsure if it has had multicast built into
  RW>  the kernal.. What is a quick way to tell? Thanks!

  RW>  rw

---

From: Richard Williams <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 16:19:35 -0700 (PDT)

First thanks for all the help i got on the last question: How to tell if
my Linux machine supports multicast.

Hello All! Here is the scenario

I have a streamWorks encoder. I am sending StreamWorks data on a multicast
address over my network. I've configured a tunnel from a Digital Unix 4.0
machine on my network to a SunOS 5.5.1 machine running mrouted on another
network over the internet. Well forget the StreamWorks variable |'} How do
i tell if multicast traffic is passing through the tunnel? I can make
requests for mcast addresses from the Sun machine but it doesn't appear as
though the Dec machine is recognizing these requests. The requests are for
the StreamWorks data by a SW server on the Sun machine. Any help is
appreciated.

rw

---

From: Magnus Danielson <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 05:04:57 +0200

> the kernal.. What is a quick way to tell? Thanks!

A quick way is to run mrouted like this:

foobar# mrouted -d

Which gives you an debug mode mrouted... it will fail if you don't have 
propper support, here's an example from my Linux box:

debug level 0x2de (prunes,routes,peers,cache,interface,membership,igmp)
05:02:15.913 mrouted version 3.9-alpha
05:02:16.632 setsockopt IP_MULTICAST_LOOP 0: Protocol not available

Aha, last line has it ;)
I need to recompile the kernel and enable multicast routing in it. Just go 
along with the recommendations you will find in /usr/src/kernerl-sources-xxx/

Cheers,
Magnus

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From: Koji OKAMURA <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 12:29:48 +0900

> the kernal.. What is a quick way to tell? Thanks!

Check that your linux have /proc/net/igmp or not.

--
Koji

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From: Joseph Porrovecchio <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 09:59:38 -0400

>    Linux IP multicast router 0.05.

Another "quick" way is by having a look at the eth0 configuration.
At your shell prompt type:

$> ifconfig eth0  or 
$> ifconfig

Among other metrics you should see RUNNING MULTICAST

-- 
Joseph Porrovecchio 
Network Support Specialist
------
External Networking Facilities Management  	
4 Bancroft Ave. Rm. 101			         
Toronto, Ontario M5S 1C1		   
Voice: 416.978.0188  Fax: 416.978.6620	   
http://enfm.utcc.utoronto.ca/~joseph / N.O.C.: 1.800.268.6324

e Dest    Packet Statistics For     Only For
Traffic
132.230.1.5    134.155.50.201    All Multicast Traffic     From
132.230.1.5
     |       __/  rtt 31   ms   Lost/Sent = Pct  Rate     To 0.0.0.0
     v      /     hop 31   ms   ---------------------
--------------------
132.230.1.9     mbone.ruf.uni-freiburg.de 
     |     ^      ttl   32   
     v     |      hop 254  s    1/2 = --%      0 pps    0/0 = --%  0 pps
129.13.81.2     video1.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de 
     |     ^      ttl   33   
     v     |      hop -254 s    1946/1946 = 100%      194 pps    0/0 = --%
0 pps
0.0.0.0         
134.155.50.201  cisco7000.uni-mannheim.de 
     |      \__   ttl   34   
     v         \  hop 0    ms        0         0 pps           0    0 pps
134.155.50.201  134.155.50.201  
  Receiver      Query Source

zoppo>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Christoph Kuhmuench             email:[email-masked]
Praktische Informatik IV        http://www.informatik.uni-mannheim.de/~cjk
Universitaet Mannheim           Tel: ++49 621 292 1554
L15,16                          Fax: ++49 621 292 5745
68131 Mannheim
Germany
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

---

From: Russell Doyen <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 15:55:19 -0400 (EDT)

Hi,

     I am trying to set up a SPARC 20 running Solaris 2.5.1.  I 
downloaded the file Solaris_mc35.2.4.tar.Z.  I extracted the files, and 
tried to install.  It said:  "Invalid release: 5.5.1".  Can I modify the 
install.multi script to run with this version?  It looks like it wants to 
run with 5.4.  When I ran ./mrouted -d, it said:

mrouted version 3.6
kernel (v2.70)/mrouted (v3.6) version mismatch

Can anyone tell me how to get this working?  I am concerned about 
replacing system files from an older release of software.  I called SUN, 
and they said all this stuff would be in release 2.6 (to be released 
sometime this summer).

Thanks,

Russell Doyen

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From: Rodrigo Costa Colossi <[email-masked]>
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 17:41:11 -0700

> >    Linux IP multicast router 0.05.

	I recomend that you use a new kernel version, like a 2.0.30 where this
message above will be:

> >    Linux IP multicast router 0.06.

	Now your Linux IP multicast router have a new version 0.06.
	This version is better.

	You can obtain a new kernel version in sunsite.unc.edu.

[]'s

-- 
Rodrigo Costa Colossi
---------------------
[email-masked]
http://www.dc.ufscar.br/~rodrigo

---

From: Rodrigo Costa Colossi <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 23 May 1997 10:55:34 -0300

>From: 
>        Eric Paulos <[email-masked]>
>     To: 
>        Richard Williams <[email-masked]>
>    CC: 
>        [email-masked]
>
>

	Please, don't use this configuration.

	I recommend that you use a new kernel version called 2.0.30,
	where this configuration will be 

	This version 0.06 is better than 0.05. I had many problems with
	version 0.05.

[]'s